To celebrate episode 150, gain exclusive access to a must-hear presentation from the PHSCON 2025 stage. Host Dr. I. David Daniels is joined by global psychosocial safety leader Kana’e Dyas for a frank and unscripted conversation on the reality of inclusive work design. Pushing beyond corporate buzzwords, they offer actionable strategies for mitigating psychosocial hazards, fostering true equity, and building a psychologically healthy workplace where everyone genuinely belongs.
To mark this monumental milestone, we are giving you a front-row seat to a powerhouse conversation straight from the main stage at the Psychological Health and Safety Conference 2025.
In this special feature presentation, host Dr. I. David Daniels is joined by global psychosocial safety leader Kana’e Dyas to explore the critical "what, why, and how" of inclusive work design. They go beyond the buzzwords to provide a practical blueprint for leaders in OHS, HR, and management who are dedicated to creating genuinely supportive and psychologically healthy workplaces.
This isn't just a discussion; it's an essential guide for anyone committed to the future of workplace mental health and safety.
Dr. I. David Daniels, PhD, CSD, VPS:
linkedin.com/in/i-david-daniels-phd-cert-safety-director-0bb50b29/
Kana’e Dyas:
linkedin.com/in/kanaedyas/
To see the full presentation live from the stage, you can watch the video version of this landmark episode on the FlourishDX YouTube channel.
Watch Here: https://www.youtube.com/c/FlourishDX
Dr I David Daniels (00:00)
Let's go back to a special conversation held at the recent PHScon 2025 in Sydney, Australia. That's up next on this 150th episode of the Psych, Health and Safety USA podcast. From Flourish DX, this is a Psych, Health and Safety USA podcast. As workplace mental health has become a global priority, there's a greater focus on addressing psychosocial hazards.
Each week, we look at psychological safety from an occupational health and safety perspective. Let's talk psychological health and safety. Welcome to this episode of the Psych Health and Safety USA podcast. I'm your host, Dr. I David Daniels, and I want to thank you for tuning in. Each week, we seek to increase awareness of the importance of psychological health and safety.
by learning from the lived experiences, research, and expertise of our guests, as well as advocating strategies to reduce harm and minimize vulnerability to psychosocial hazards in the American workplace. Welcome to the 150th episode of the podcast. The average podcast has about 57 episodes in its catalog. When this podcast started three years ago,
I don't know that there was anything other than interest in the topic for me as a host, regarding how long it would last or how diverse it would become. To date, the podcast has featured 168 unique guests. Notably, 54 % of these guests have been female and 51 % have been people of color. Our guests have been immigrants, people with disabilities.
transgender, as young as college freshmen, and as old as folks who are retired. They have been doctors, lawyers, professors, construction workers, teachers, financial advisors, real estate managers, firefighters, consultants, human resource professionals, psychologists, and of course, safety professionals and many others. None of this could have been
or would have been possible without the ongoing support of CEO Jason Van Shee and the team at Flourish DX. I recently had the opportunity to speak at PHSCon 2025, a conference that Flourish DX sponsors in Sydney, Australia. This is the top global gathering place for the psychological health and safety community. It was quite an honor to be able to participate.
to be able to meet folks from primarily Australia and New Zealand, but other countries around the world who are similarly focused and interested in the concept of psychological health and safety. So for this episode, I'd like to share the conversation regarding inclusive work design and diverse workplaces that I had the opportunity of having with Kanae Dias, who's a workplace support manager.
psychological safety, well-being, and respect for work for Anglo American, a global mining company headquartered in London, England. Kanae and I had the opportunity to be on stage and talk or certainly have a conversation. Matter of fact, we discussed it before we got on stage about just having a conversation, not necessarily scripted, but a discussion about the importance of inclusive workplaces, of
co-designing work so it is psychologically healthy and safe for everyone. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I had having the conversation with her. Let's go into the conversation right now.
Kanae Dyas (04:05)
I know, I'm so excited to be here and I'll hand it over to David first but we like a good yarn so we'll just warn you ahead of time.
Dr I David Daniels (04:15)
So some of you who were here last year and maybe have followed me around, you know, this thing I do, I'm the product of a 14-year-old who had seven kids. And I told her that she stopped having kids at seven because she realized her oldest was the best and she decided to stop. But I try to take her along with me to usual places that at her age she might not have an opportunity to go.
So I tried to show her little bit about what her son is doing, and I tried to get folks, there's bright lights, I don't know if you can see all these people out there, but could you all say hello to my mom, hello? Look at that, See you later.
That gets me points as a mama's boy. But it ⁓ is really a pleasure to be here. And the thing that makes this so much of a pleasure for me personally is the opportunity to be in a space where I'm not the only one who believes what I believe. I've been in a few of those. We'll probably talk about some of that stuff, but I've been in a lot of spaces where
Kanae Dyas (05:06)
Hahaha!
Dr I David Daniels (05:33)
You know, I felt kind of alone because the way I saw things, the way I saw the environment, the way I felt in the environment, it just felt like I was the only one who felt that way. And a lot of the benefit of this entire couple of days, and in my case, the last couple of weeks, is the opportunity to be in community. It's not just this event, it's the community that...
has gathered last year, this year, and hopefully for years to come, that you don't, again, have to convince that psychological health and safety is important. I think ⁓ Kanae and I will be talking a little bit about some of the things that all of us can do to make that community stronger.
Kanae Dyas (06:21)
And that's, further to your point, very well said. And I think for me, you know, this is a great opportunity and I really thank the Flourish DX team for, you know, adding this topic to the conference and it's been a phenomenal two days. I've just had pearls of wisdom from all of the speakers and meeting phenomenal people and David and I were just talking. Sometimes, you know, working in this space of psychosocial safety can be a bit isolating ⁓ and you can sometimes feel one of none.
to the point, you know, this is great from a therapeutic perspective around, you know, being with your tribe and filling your cup. ⁓ But sometimes when you are one of none, you know, there's lots of things that come with that. And particularly when you're a diverse person or you're culturally or racially marginalised or whether you're within the LGBTQIA community or whether you're indigenous. You know, these are some of the challenges in terms of when you're working ⁓ in isolation.
How are the work designs that we're developing impacting diverse people? And the way that we manage psychosocial safety, is it inclusive? Are there components there that actually consider cultural safety for people that are diverse? And we're not just talking about from, you know, racial components, we're talking about age, we're talking about disability, we're talking about a range of things through to gender, particularly for some...
areas where it is male oriented environments for instance mining and resources and construction all the way through to military. So I'm really excited about today's topic and it's going to be hard because we as I said we like a good yarn the other night we had a conversation and we thought it was only going to go for about half an hour next minute we know it's two o'clock, I don't know two hours it was like 12 30 in the morning and I'm like I've got to go to bed.
Dr I David Daniels (08:12)
Right, right, right.
Kanae Dyas (08:14)
It's a really topical discussion. ⁓ And I was really delighted to see in some of the other conversations with the speakers and presenters the questions that were coming from the audience, particularly around cultural aspects and what are some of the things we need to be doing better. So hopefully David and I can impart some of that wisdom and have a conversation together.
Dr I David Daniels (08:38)
⁓
We're just inviting you to a conversation, to be quite honest. We talked a little bit about how do we do this, and ⁓ based on our first conversation about less than a month ago, and our meeting in person yesterday, and our conversations today, we think we're just gonna talk, and y'all can kind of join in in our conversation. So to set the context, there are at least the best data I can find. 300 and.
58.7 million businesses on the globe, and 110 million of them are employers. And the conversation about psychological health and safety really applies more to the employers than it does to the businesses. I believe that's a part of our challenge is that we have too many places of employment that are run like businesses. That's issue we're having in my country right now is that people have been talking about running government like a business.
And that's what we have, we have a business and government are two very different things that are established for very different purposes. And I don't believe you should run government like a business, that's me, that's probably why I'm not in it. But ⁓ I also don't think you should run a place of employment necessarily like a business either. I think you should run a place of employment like a place of employment because that involves engaging other human beings. And that's...
Again, a lot of great business ideas, but some people, they kind of forget that. So when I create something, anything, think we all do, when I create something, it's perfect for me, works great for me. ⁓ But when I invite other people, they bring different thoughts, different ideas, and it doesn't matter how they look, where they came from, that really doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that we just have these different stories to tell, and how do we bring all those stories into whatever it is we're gonna engage in.
and created an environment so all of us can contribute everything that we have to contribute. I don't believe in bringing your whole self to work because you're not ready for my whole self.
Speaker 1 (10:47)
Yeah.
Dr I David Daniels (10:48)
You're not. mean, most businesses are not, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the same conversation, but most of our business infrastructure, most of our, ⁓ even our governments were set up for 8 % of the world's population. The other 92 % kind of get left out sometimes. So how do we, now if you want to limit your thing to only 8 % of the population, that's great.
Some of us might not buy from you. Some of us may not want to do business with you, but if you want to get my business, you might want to learn a little bit about me and a little bit about my story. And not that mine is better or worse than yours, but it is different from yours. And you certainly experienced that in the mining industry with a bunch of dudes. please.
Speaker 1 (11:44)
Yeah.
Kanae Dyas (11:45)
Well, I like to bring that conversation back to the whole self. And many of us that have worked in health and safety and HR, particularly in injury management, we use that term quite frequently, the whole self, right? And it's fascinating because it has become somewhat of a, used a bit tokenistically, right? And...
When I talk to people that are diverse and they come from diverse backgrounds, it's not necessarily safe to be your whole self. Because to your point, David, sometimes some workplaces just aren't ready for the whole self, right? And it can be, and what I find sometimes is when we're looking at these idealistic views, which is ⁓ wonderful, there's some workplaces that are doing it very well, very, very well. But they do it well because they've spent the time in terms of scaffolding. And Adam Grant talked a lot about that.
⁓ When we're talking about attracting a diverse workforce, we have a lot of problems in the retention space because, you know, we have well-intended ideas around having diversity and we know the benefits that diversity brings. It's not rocket science, right? It's a no-brainer that with diversity of thought, we have diversity of experience, the richness that it brings and how it benefits business and our economy in a number of different ways.
However, what I found, and this will lead into some more of the ⁓ really meaty part of the conversation around what's happening in geopolitics, but what I find is that sometimes the organisations haven't put enough by way in place of cultural safety or that scaffolding to make sure that people, when they do bring their whole self to work, that they're actually celebrated, they're understood, they're safe, there's strategies in place that actually understand them. ⁓
But there's some other things of pearls of wisdom that Adam grants it as well, which was a great segue for us, was around some of the systems that are designed today or are legacy issues from what was designed by predecessors, whether it's the dark triad or whether it was a system that was designed based on institutional bias. And it was designed for certain people to provide leveraging and benefits. That's how it was. We recognise that.
In order to have a truly meaningful, diverse and inclusive workplace where people have a sense of belonging and safety, we need to understand that some of these structures in place, the systems and symbols that drive these behaviours are part of those legacy issues. So when we're doing psychosocial safety, that needs to be part of our approach to consider that, well, what do we need to do in our gap analysis? Are the policies, the procedures, the systems and the symbols driving these behaviours actually the barriers to meeting ⁓
or achieving a more inclusive and safe workplace that is actually representative of everyone. So that takes a bit of courage, right? It does. It takes the courage to hold up a mirror and go, hey, you know, these policies aren't actually safe for everyone. That we need to be a little bit more agile and pivot towards what is going to be really meaningful for a diverse workforce. That a one paint brush doesn't fit all. ⁓ this, I think, this broad brush approach
⁓ might actually, those systems and symbols or the very controls or protective factors we've put in place for the general workforce might actually be a hazard or harmful to someone that comes from a diverse background, whether they're neurodiverse or they might identify with intersectional factors. We need to start as health and safety practitioners and HR practitioners. The way that we do things, we need to think a lot more holistically and we need to be future-facing in terms of, you know, how do we actually meet the diverse needs of our...
our people.
Dr I David Daniels (15:32)
So you just mentioned future-facing.
I'll take this to my grave, Adam Grant was my opening act, you know, but ⁓ he did mention something about this loyalty we have to dead people. ⁓ I, you know, again, I spent a bunch of years in the fire rescue service. As a matter of fact, one of the mottos I heard was 200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress. And there are folks who are really proud of that, that we've got our traditions. And again, that is really this... ⁓
so focused on the dead people, but they're not focused on the present people. And we try to get the present people to be like the dead people, or the gone people, or the old people, or the people who used to be here. And so many organizations end up being unhealthy and unsafe for the people who are here today. So you say you want that group, whoever that, you want that person, you want their skills, but you haven't created the kind of environment that will keep them. And in some cases, you can't even get them to.
to apply. If you're wondering why your applications have declined, it's because, well, you still have 17 applications in 45 interviews, and it's going to take six months. And others have figured out how we can take three clicks in LinkedIn and get your application seen, and you're having an interview tomorrow. So again, it's not that either of those are bad. The question is, do they serve the needs and the interests of the people?
that you say you want. I really feel like it's important to mention that the definition of a psychosocial hazard from my research, and it's also in the book, suggests that a psychosocial hazard is a psychosocial factor that's perceived or experienced by the person exposed as threatening to them to the extent it causes their behavior to change. And that is...
First of all, I couldn't find a definition in the international standard, in the countries that I looked at. I found lists of things, but I didn't really find a real definition that kind of made sense. And that definition also takes into consideration our differences. Because you and me could be in the very same room, the very same group of people, having the very same conversation, and just have a very different reaction. And it doesn't make either of us wrong either.
doesn't make us bad people, doesn't make this a bad environment. It just says that there's something based on my life experience that you're not going to know. And so again, all of you really good-hearted folks are trying to save the world and fix everything. You can't fix all of this. You can't know everything about my life story. You can't know the trauma that I experienced when I was eight or nine years old or the sick.
cat I have at home or the bill I have to pay or the, you can't know that. The question is when it comes up, when it manifests, what do you do? What do you do, how do you respond?
Kanae Dyas (18:36)
Exactly. And I think, you know, in the roles, we spoke a lot about these roles. It's our heart and soul. You don't necessarily do it, you know, sometimes people might choose it as a career pathway to align themselves to other strategic career aspirations, which is great. But what I see is the people that are in this actually are committed to it because they love it, right?
But it comes back to also how do we actually manage that and how do, sometimes we try to be all things to all people. And you don't need to be experts in this place, but you do need to care. And a big part of that is how do we respond in those moments? How do we show up in those moments? And we don't need to have all the answers. And as an Indigenous woman from Papua New Guinea, I work a great deal in community with Indigenous communities, people from different backgrounds as well. And some of the challenge that I see in the disconnect is
sometimes for non-Indigenous people, or we need to say the right thing, or we need to be able to respond and have all the right answers, but because we don't, then there's inaction. We're scared that we might say something that's politically incorrect, or it's too hard. ⁓
What I say to people now is that ask, have those curious questions, start with conversations. As a person that comes from a different cultural background, I love when somebody actually says, hey, what does your name mean? What's some of the different things that you do? And that's how it starts organically, those relationships. But when we start to build those connections, we find out that those differences are really not big. There's a lot more commonality in terms of who we are. And that connection piece really then starts to invite
meaningful conversations so when things do come up in the workplace that we know how to respond in a meaningful way and that's your engagement not feeling like we have to know everything or answer everything but it starts with those curious questions and connection. ⁓ What I might do David is to is speak to your experience and your thoughts about and I know in Australia there's been lots of conversation when we've been watching the US it's not hard to see what's going on and Jimmy Reese has done a great job impersonation and I'm not going
do that to you guys. But you know with a lot of talk around rolling back DEI initiatives, ⁓ what's the impact and the feel in the US at the moment and in your views what's the harm in terms of the impacts that will have with the dismantling of DEI in the US?
Dr I David Daniels (21:10)
I think the big impact is on the people who weren't serious about it anyway. ⁓ When George Floyd was murdered five years ago, ⁓ it became very trendy for folks to jump on board with the, you know, my wife and I talk about this, drive through, our neighborhood doesn't have any Black Lives Matter signs out. Of course, my neighborhood is about 90 % black, so we don't have to put the signs out, so. ⁓
But I find folks putting yard signs out and starting employee resource groups and we're gonna, and I've seen examples of that kind around the globe. People will pick your group that we're really concerned about those folks. Really? Are you concerned about them or is it trendy? And for those, I found that those, for those that it was a value, doesn't matter. I can use, as a matter of fact, I'm of the belief that if you create
a psychologically healthy and safe environment for everyone. You don't have to have a lettered soup alphabet thing. You just create a psychologically healthy and safe environment for everyone that you invite. And if you don't want people there, don't invite them. Don't, don't. That's the part to me that is, ⁓ two sides. Again, the more birthdays I have, the less interested I am in binary choices. So it's a little bit of both.
Part of me says that's really, know, it's people just being who they actually always were. know, they, the folks have instead of, you know, wearing their sheet, they're just taking it off. And frankly, I'm okay with that because I believe that people do have a right to express themselves in whatever way they want. Now you don't have a right to impose that on me and to make it difficult for me. And that's where, you know, in the workplace we've got some challenges.
And the reason we have the challenges in the workplace is it was never designed to be safe for me in the first place. Again, I talked about the fact that it was built for the 8%. I'm not a minority, neither are you. We're part of the 92 % of the global population who are like us. But most of the folks who are in charge of things are part of the 8%. And so the system has been set up such that I have to act, I'm told that I have to be like.
And frankly, I've gotten to the point where I'm not going to. I will find a tribe, I will find a place that is accepting of me. And not only am I that way, I'm finding there's a generation of people that are starting to say, look, this is who I am. And if you don't want me working here, I will take my talent down the street because they are wise enough to understand that great talent comes in all kinds of packages. And just with the numbers, if you want to, you
You have your choice, either evolve or become extinct. And there are a lot of business enterprises that are gonna become extinct because they are wrapped up in letters and people are using this as an excuse to go, well, we're gonna back away. Okay, target, back away from it. There's a price to be paid for
Kanae Dyas (24:22)
It's fascinating. This brings back to an experience where I was working at one of our operations and it's not the place of employment where I am now. But it was through the Black Lives Matter movement, George Floyd, who was murdered. And ⁓ unfortunately, we had an Indigenous suicide at one of the sites. So it was quite contentious. And ⁓ rightfully so, there was a lot of suspicion from the family. And it was a tough time, particularly through
you know, how do we manage this and how do we navigate this within the workplace and making sure that everyone feels safe and included, but particularly working with the family. And there's a lot of historical ⁓ context to Australia as there is to America, obviously. ⁓ And I know, you know, a lot of workplaces are navigating through ⁓ not only the voice, the referendum, ⁓ but I know working with Indigenous workers at the time and those that were allies, the impact that that had as well.
as we went through the Me Too movement ⁓ and how pivotal that has been in terms of encouraging people to come forward and share their lived experiences and calling it out and how important it is that we have active bystanders that can intervene and call out these behaviours. So we're changing the landscape of the workplace to ensure that it's safe for all people to come to work and hopefully that where people can start to bring their whole self to work.
But in saying that, when we look at some of the geopolitical issues that are happening today, know, such as what's happening in Palestine, even the issues that are happening in the US, the political landscape, those individuals that are within our workplaces now that might be going through those experiences, how do workplaces and leaders show up in those instances without feeling that, well, if I take this kind of stand, it could be career blackmail or I'm siding with some political movement, how do I actually
show up for this person or this group of people to ensure that they're safe. Do you need more psych health and safety in your life? Then head over to the FlourishGX Academy for several free on-demand e-learning courses. If you're an internal professional, follow FlourishGX on Eventbrite to register for any of our free, importantly interactive webinars. Our flagship professional practice program is also exclusively available for internal professionals.
the 12-week course plans theory applied practice and interaction with other professionals through live lectures and a monthly community of practice session. Find out more about all these learning opportunities or inquire about a bespoke in-house training at the Floris GX Academy www.4503.org. Now back to this episode.
Dr I David Daniels (27:06)
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. ⁓ Not only should individuals be themselves, business enterprises should be who they are. ⁓ That means if you believe in something, continue to believe in that. And then also be able to accept the consequence of the decision that you made.
and not use the excuse that well, be who you're going to be and you will draw allies and supporters. There is no enterprise that's gonna be totally agreeable to all of us all the time. I think that's a hallucination that we all have is that yeah, we can create this thing that everybody's gonna like everything that we do. That's probably not possible. What is possible is when we come from our various diverse backgrounds,
We have to decide what this culture is going to be. We have to decide what is safe for all of us, and it's constantly evolving because we're evolving. Who in the world ever would have thought a kid raised in Seattle, Washington, and a woman born in Papua New Guinea who'd have so much in common? But we do because we're humans. We're on the same planet. We all have a lot of similarities and things going on with us, but we're...
We're told that we're so different that we can't work this out. Yes, we can. But we have to just make that decision. This is what I am. This is what you are. How do we decide how we are gonna accomplish getting this mineral out of the ground, putting a fire out, taking care of sick people? We just have to decide that. we have to be, those values have to be so deep that we're even willing to shift them. We brought in more people, different people. We changed the way we believe about this thing because
When we started this enterprise, we didn't know that. So we've learned more. We've gotten better. And folks, this is a journey. It's not a destination. You don't get there. You're just always on your way there, always. Unless you drop out of the race altogether, that's called going to a funeral. And I don't like those all that
Kanae Dyas (29:16)
No, I totally agree with you. On the way here, I was listening to a podcast from Aunty Joan, she's a Gadigal woman, and it was fascinating. It's a podcast called Black Card, so if you ever get a chance to listen to it, it's really powerful. ⁓ And we were just talking about, you know, the way that we show up in community and the way that we show up in workplaces, because sometimes when you're...
one of none or there's a small group, there is an expectation of certain cultural burden that we have to be all things and provide cultural knowledge to everyone and that can be exhausting. When you're going through certain things that might be, ⁓ you know, triggering to an extent, when you're seeing certain injustices play out, it can raise and evoke certain feelings, particularly when you're talking about intergenerational trauma or trauma. And we all have experienced trauma to some extent.
But when there's legacy issues, and particularly when you're working in an environment or exposed in community to systems that continually show up that reignite those feelings of disempowerment and you don't have a voice, ⁓ it's really important to be able to have those safe places and connect. But there is, and this is what I ask a lot of workplaces and leaders to be aware of, when you're looking at these DE and I programs, education is really important.
But don't always look to the person to educate you. It's our responsibility to educate ourselves. My son, is a wonderful social advocate, my goodness, it's an argument about everything about social politics. But in the age of information, there really is no excuse. There is no excuse to not know. We need to have this impetus to learn more about others, to ask those questions and have that connection. ⁓
But it's really fascinating because when we talk about sustainability and how we show up, performative allyship is a real big issue for a lot of people ⁓ of cultural backgrounds and diverse backgrounds. And we see that a lot happen in workplaces, particularly when DEI is the new initiative or it's the newest thing to align yourself to. And quite often this performative allyship is a way of exploiting these D &I positions or groups.
but that actually can be very, very harmful to the very people that it's set up and designed to support. What are your thoughts about that?
Dr I David Daniels (31:45)
Yes, it goes back to the point I was making earlier, ⁓ is be genuine in however you feel about this. I'm a pretty decent judge of character, not as my wife's better, but, and I can tell when you're faking it. I can tell.
I mean, I can tell. I can tell that when you talk to me about it, you have this kind of, the certain words that you use and, yeah, I don't really want, it just, it feels really weird to me too. So let's, don't do it. Don't be weird. Let's not be weird to one another. Let's just be honest about how we feel. would rather, and I wanna get ready to answer, or have us answer some of the questions, but.
I would rather you simply say that you don't like me than to fake it. Because I don't have to like you either. I mean, seriously, I can go both ways. On the other hand, if you don't understand something and get into your point, just ask. If you want to know how people are feeling, ask. Just make the inquire. And it doesn't have to be the big survey thing. Often, psychosocial hazards arise and really,
minute ways and really simple circumstances and situations that we kind of forget about or don't pay attention to, and those are the ones that blow up into big deals down the road. So just pay attention to little things. That doesn't really work well for me. So let's have a conversation about that. How could we do that in a way that would be more effective for you? Because we have decided that we want to do this thing, whatever the enterprise we're involved in is.
Perhaps we should have a conversation about the best way to do it. So I'm going to see if I can get the question thing working here. do I have to ⁓ do that part? Sorry. there they go. ⁓ boy, we've got questions. We've got a few. We've got a few. OK, so how about this one? ⁓ Can you please provide an example of legacy systems slash behaviors that are not culturally safe?
Kanae Dyas (33:49)
I have some really strong opinions about this. But ⁓ again, it starts at the board level, right? Because these
are very, excellent question by the way, because these are integral non-negotiable issues. DE and I is not a fluffy nice to have. It truly isn't. And I say that from my heart, my children, my husbands from America, African-American, my children are also mixed with Native American Indian as well. So for me, these
Dr I David Daniels (34:01)
and what you've moved towards to address and enable cultural diversity, safety, diversity slash safety.
Kanae Dyas (34:19)
matters hit home close to heart, right, as they do for you and many of us in this room. ⁓ But it starts at the board level because this is where you have the influence to be able to commit to resourcing and strategy and then you set the expectations and the tone of organisations and leadership to deliver on these components, right, and they report back to the board on those deliverables. ⁓ The other key thing around that for me is having ⁓ actionable strategies. Very, very important to have those
Yes, don't necessarily, know, DEI targets are up for conversations, but they're there for a reason, to ensure that we meet those KPIs and we make sure that we're getting some form of diversity. But the Social Cohesion Index as well as the Workplace Cohesion Index and also the Women of Colour Report which came out last year, and I really encourage you to read those three reports because they are very informative. The key things for me that are very important in terms of those takeaways is representation matters.
Nothing about us without us.
So it's very critical to ensure that when you're forming policy and procedures or initiatives or doing your risk assessments, that you have those people that are represented in the room to provide and give you that informed lens. And it's part of the collaboration, it's part of consultation, which is super, super important and a big part in terms of that disconnect in building care and respect. ⁓ The other key things for me that it's really important to share from a mining perspective
You know, we sit around 80 % in terms of men in the demographics. We've now reached 20 % and that's taken a lot of work in order to get there. Some organisations are sitting at 40%. However, of that only 4 % are Indigenous to the workforce and 1.6 % are Indigenous women to that workforce. So that tells us we need more. We need to do more around being aware, committing to actionable strategies, but it's not just about diversity inclusion, it's about
equity, equity of opportunities, equity of safety. And all of us in this room are in a position, even though sometimes it feels like we're pushing stuff uphill.
We are in a position to inform, we're in a position to consult, collaborate. We're in a position to be actually drive meaningful change for more inclusive and safe workplaces that are equitable for everyone. So I think that's my ask of you today. If you take one action away, what is it that you're going to do around DE &I? What are the things that you think you can change at a grassroots level that is going to be meaningful for someone else, not just for you? But thank you.
Dr I David Daniels (37:01)
Right.
Yes. In the time we have, so one more question. ⁓ What are the practical things that organizations can do to safety, do to safety and appropriately embed DEI in practices into psychosocial risk management? It's not that hard. It's not. I mean, again, to the extent we can create
a psychologically healthy and safe environment for everyone that we invited, then you don't really have to worry so much about the DEI parts of it. Is it safe for everybody? Again, that we invited. you're gonna go out and invite indigenous folks,
Black folks, women, disabled folks, gay folks, pick your group. If you're gonna invite them into the thing that you started because you had the business idea, then it is better to ⁓ create that space before people show up rather than after.
And that is gonna require conversation. I know I consider myself not only to be an ally, but an accomplice when it comes to supporting women. But I'm not a woman. So if I find myself in a leadership or an influence area that's gonna impact women, I have conversations with women about, what do you think about this? And again, I'm not gonna get it perfect. You're never going to get it perfect.
But it'll be better. again, another one of my words, people don't shoot holes in boats that they're actually in.
If there are, and particularly if I help build the boat. People are complaining, they're, where's Peter, weaponizing these things because they didn't have any involvement in it. Their voice wasn't heard. You didn't think about me, you created it and then you bring it to them and go like, hey, what do you think about this? Well, not much. Have that conversation with me early. Have the discussion about what the system, how is it gonna be safe for the new people we're gonna bring in.
before we bring the people in as we are ⁓ bringing people into our organization, as we're having our orientations. Let's have the conversation then. Let's not wait until things have gone totally sideways. I'm looking at the clock. have 45 seconds.
And I'll repeat something my former first lady said, do something.
Hope you enjoyed that. And if you're watching or listening to this podcast for the first time, welcome. I hope something you've heard will bring you back to a future episode. Previous episodes of the podcast can be found at psychhealthandsafetyusa.com. You can watch, like, subscribe, and share the podcast on the Flourish DX YouTube page. And please do join the Psych Health and Safety USA movement by connecting and becoming a subscriber on LinkedIn.
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